Hi guys,
I’m pretty new to the 3D-Printing space and I was looking at getting a FDM 3D printer mainly for printing miniatures due to space issues with resin printers. I managed to find a secondhand Prusa MK3S+ that is basically new at around the same price as a new Neptune 4 Pro. I’m quite torn between the 2 printers and I do want to print other miscellaneous things other than just minis, so I wanted to ask what is the general consensus on these 2 printers ?Thanks in advance!
Well. The Neptune looks like it is running on the Klipper platform. Which means fast print speeds. However this has it’s own set of problems.
I just bought a Bambu X1C and it is so fast that the head causes the whole printer to wobble like an out of balance washing machine when not laying down filament and moving long distance ( I put on anit-vibration feet… may have been a mistake). That caused 3 tall prints on one plate to topple even though it is not a “bed slinger” like the Prusa and Neptune. (bed moves back and forth rapidly on Y axis instead of minutely up and down on the z axis).
I have an MK3s that I upgraded to MKs3+ and now upgraded to MKs3.5. On that one I have the quick change nozzle system E3D Revo 6. I love it. Can swap a 2.5 nozzle in quickly to print minis or a .4 for most printing or a .6 for large projects. It can be added to the MK3s.
Prusa is a project of love. (But it is a project). I upgraded to MK3.5 to get about 35% more speed, but it was a bit misguided. Speed on a bedslinger is fine for some projects not others. Tall narrow prints no. Tall large prints yes. short large projects yes… know the limitations as no one will tell you until you search for “WHY IT FAILED 
”
Prusa has mostly stellar support and is mostly open source. Neptune, not so sure.
I got my X1C mostly because it is a full solution printing “appliance” which means I should have to do less tweaking and modding. I also got it because their multi material system is pretty darn good… even though I was compelled to print the “Hydra” mod to accommodate some other filament manufacturers spools. The others are rapidly trying to play catch up in the consumer/ prosumer sphere.
I am a Prusa fan ( I also have a Mini) but the X1C is was feature rich, and just prints.
If Prusa can leapfrog Bambu and others who are catching up in a year or so… I’ll be back.
Elegoo… probably wouldn’t. They are a very multifaceted company who makes a lot of different type of products. I prefer focused makers.
Oh and the Bambu X1C (and all the other Bumbu printers) do not have a quick change nozzle system. But the hot end is relatively easy to swap out and inexpensive to by them ready to go with different nozzles.
I own an MK4S and Mini+. No matter what Prusa you buy, it will be supported for as long as physically possible. The whole Prusa team stands behind everything they sell and I have had zero issues getting answers or parts for either printer, and my Mini+ is going on four years old.
You’re paying a premium for them, but the support is absolutely fantastic and Prusa is never going to do anything shady to limit what you can do with your printer or profit from your prints…like every Chinese company. And I’m not a China-phobe out of sheer stupidity or misinformation. I was a Senior Project Manager on two of the largest American led projects in China’s history and I dealt first hand with the government, and hundreds of manufacturers and suppliers. Not to mention after having spent over five years living in China, I have a lot of Chinese friends who speak freely about their country. I saw and experienced first hand what really goes on over there.
If you’re inferring to Bambu’s latest update, there are lots of reactionary posts about it. Much ado about nothing as far as I can tell.
I have a few high level plant automation programmer friends who have worked in China. The stories are bizarre. That doesn’t mean they can’t make a good product. Market share will keep them somewhat in line.
Sometimes Prusa support misses the mark: Jump through these 5 hoops that have little or nothing to do with the problem.
Prusa’s MMU a is the reason I am not buying Prusa. Too much heartache with the MMU.
I’m referring to everything Bambu does. In all the years of owning a Prusa, my printer has never turned on in the middle of the night and started printing, as one example…Google it.
People do not understand that EVERY company in China shares EVERYTHING with the CCCP. Do you know that no foreign country can start a business inside of China on their own. A Chinese entity has to be the majority shareholder of any foreign investment through a joint venture. Fortunately my first two projects were 49% US/51% Chinese. My third project was 39% US/61% Chinese, and every decision was a complete nightmare. I had to read through multiple, hundred-plus page documents for all three of my projects and they all basically stated that the IP becomes property of the Chinese government. BTW, I’m talking about two projects each worth about six billion US dollars and both of them are working on phase two now.
I think your comment about the stories being “bizarre” is funny. Most people don’t believe the stories because they don’t have first-hand experience dealing with the lies, the corruption, the theft of both material goods and IP, and the constantly evolving government policies based solely on how the politicians feel that day. I mean it honestly trickles down to where you can and can’t ride your scooter on a near daily basis. One day you find out you can no longer ride in a place that you’ve been riding in for years, because some high ranking person woke up in a pissy mood. Unfortunately, the only way for you to realize this is when you are essentially pushed off your scooter by the police, your ID is demanded, and you are threatened with legal action. Luckily, I was a laowai and they would usually just tell me to turn around. Chinese nationals aren’t so lucky. This really happened to some of my Chinese friends, right in front of me.
I also have the MMU3 and have had zero issues with it. It’s interesting that you did because almost every review I saw/read before taking the plunge, people were speaking very positively about it. As for your Prusa support comment, every support person in the world reads from a script and will eventually be replaced by AI. At least I can buy every single part for the printer, and if it’s not for sale, on the Prusa site, they have the print files available on Printables.
My main issue with Bambu is, no one really knows what’s being sent and to whom, unless someone is running Wireshark and inspecting packets 24 hours a day. Unfortunately, you’re still not going to be able to see what’s being transmitted if it’s encrypted, but you’ll be able to see who it’s going to. I value my privacy because it’s so easy to lose these days.
You do Bambu, I do Prusa…a true open-source, privacy minded, honest, and reliable 3D printer company. I’ll agree to disagree…we’re all entitled to our own opinions, because after all is said and done, it’s just my opinion.
I am not pushing Bambu. It’s simply advice about Bedslinger vs CoreXY. Prusa would be my choice over Ender and many others. But I have to repeat my out of box with X1C is amazing. Rocking 8 colors and will probably easily add 4 more.
I get your trepidation with Chinese products… My plant automation buddies espoused what engineering meetings are like working with Chinese engineering teams. We can all see how oppressive that gov is, you add more valuable info to that.
Still not worried as I have nothing worth taking. If I put something up that is marketable someone likely to rip it off possibly? Patents are too easy to avoid/ circumnavigate. It’s a broken system IMHO.
our lives are surrounded by Chinese products. I know first hand how easy it is to put hidden functionality in firmware as I have jokingly created it as a thought experiment to make a point. Funny not funny in a scary way. But I “think” market share will keep them “mostly” in line. Key word “think”.
A printer being turned on remotely is at the heart of why Bambu is tightening security maybe? Why would we automatically expect something more nefarious? Shapr could have exploits unknown at this time and all of us are subject to not so safe internet protocols which are at best waiting for the next exploit to be patched if it can be. Yay encryption…except with AI now? 
The ones with the most market share often make the biggest targets. It is a little worrisome to me this controversy dropped shortly after I made my purchase. Sure, but I am not that concerned about it, yet. I am glad for the controversy as it might help to straighten them out if faced with market loss.
As for tech support. I never had a script to read from in 14 years. I had hundreds of self accumulated folders with schematics, service manuals, notes and datasheets. Freedom from that script helped reduce unnecessary warranties that frustrate customers even further when “often” it wasn’t our products fault, and more often leads to a proper fix without the guessing. I was given the freedom to think outside the box and improve support for end users and seasoned technicians. I learned techniques dispelling the callers frustration (they start out miffed/ mad when they call), reaffirming care, rewording questions in different ways after subtle distractions so they don’t detect I am testing their observations, and a linear instead of circular tail chasing methods of troubleshooting too many technicians are guilty of. If it’s broke it must be that complicated thing right there’s fault…
I do appreciate this convo with you and this is just my $0.00000000002 Billion dollars.
Thanks 
Feel bad I’ve hijacked this post. Hopefully @Bolshaq isn’t turned off and has gleaned some useful information. These forums really are great way to broaden your mind.
I miss the tech support days you talk about. Out of curiosity, can you mention who you used to work for? I wonder if they’ve moved to the very impersonal script approach. I loathe calling tech support and repeating, “I’ve already done that…” fifteen times. It’s so much easier and more fruitful to just search a forum or Reddit, which few people do these days. Just look at how many times “Why did my body disappear when I deleted the sketch?” pops up in this forum. That question should be a sticky at the top.
And just wait until quantum computing becomes mainstream…then we’re all screwed!
And I don’t fault you at all for buying the Bambu, the output is great and so is the speed. I love the MK4s, but I’ve got my name on the waitlist for MK4s to Core One Upgrade and will be purchasing that the day it comes out.
And I also like that everything we’ve said has remained non-confrontational…two fairly well-balanced, adults having a conversation…damn I miss those days.
I worked for a small family owned company called Dinosaur Electronics. I converted a church into their new office building for them and other construction projects. My hobby was computers. They had an NT Server crash on their accounting network. I fixed it. They hired me to build their catalog and website which I had no idea how to do but I pulled it off. The website is painfully old but almost the same site I originally built 26 years ago? 
I was working on a more dynamic site when I left them.
Their engineer was killed in Texas, since I was a “computer guy” I was pushed into the position. I asked if he wanted me to give tech support a try. I learned it all by the seat of my pants. The founder taught me some electronics but didn’t he want anything to do with computers. He did PCBs the old fashioned way. Tape and Photo reduction. He would hand me schematics and I designed the PCBs. I have a few products there. We covered many other productsnot shown on the website.
The company actually started repairing and knocking off SDS computer boards. His wife rewired core memories by hand.Crazy stuff! Hence the name Dinosaur… keeping extinct main frames running. Control systems that could not be easily replaced relied on them.
The founder (my mentor) had a heart attack. Called his son in law in who was a middle manager at Teledyne to run the co so he could retire. My raises stopped and more and more was pushed onto my shoulders. I asked for a salary increase. No degree so I was refused. Engineering and being the only real tech support plus all the other duties is not conducive to Engineering new products or maintaining one’s sanity.
I started a mobile RV repair + mobile PC repair/ IT work business nights and weekends. Finally had enough and of being disregarded and went full time. They are still my friends (like family) but they are languishing. They need an engineer. Nepotism is their downfall.
I know a lot about a lot of different systems, appliances etc. I am retired but I still do tech support for the local RV techs here. Most RV techs do not have enough electrical/ electronic know how. This costs them and the end user a LOT of money.
Some of the newer RVs are like spaceships in their complexity. I thrive on that kind of troubleshooting. Very few are built clean and organized though. Even the higher dollar stuff. Man do I have some stories there.
Regardless of the Printer you get, you will have a learning curve, and need to get a .2 nozzle to get good quality prints of any small size. The .4 nozzle that is standard on all these machines, will just get you a reasonable good looking mini. To get close to resin printing, you will need to decrease the nozzle size and allow the print to slow down. So you will have to really experiment a lot with the settings for your chosen filament. I print minis every now and again on a Bambu A1 mini. $300 and then another 35 for the smaller nozzle and I can print just about equal to the resin printers. I get no failures of prints coming off the bed with no special effort. Truly a testament to the little machine’s capabilities
Want to say the same thing. Get the .2mm nozzle. if you want to do miniature and expect resin quality.
When I got a higher quality printer at first I was disappointed, for miniatures. By decreasing printing layer height to .12mm I was somewhat satisfied with .4mm nozzle.
Upgrading to .2mm nozzle gave me similar quality to production part you can buy. Plus .2mm can’t do super high speed anyways so you are going for quality.
Right now my default nozzle is .2mm, my printer is out of warranty so I don’t care if it brakes by doing this. I use .2mm nozzle and changed the default setting to .4mm so I don’t have to swap nozzles. Fortunately never had any issues, been doing it for 2 years already.
While on K1 MAX another story, day 1!
Hi
I opted for an X1 carbon last year, and have not regretted it.
I have only had one print work out badly.
It was an ASA print of a long bracket, which lifted from the bed at one end.
ASA is known for it.
It was usable but not good enough for a customer.
I have mostly been using 0.4mm and these days 0.6mm nozzle as I tend to make structural parts.
Rule of thumb keep your layer heights below 50% of the nozzle width, this helps to maintain decent layer adhesion.
My favourite filament in the last year has been ABS-GF. It has excellent dimensional stability, tends to stay flat on the build plate, and has a great look.
You can operate the X1 without going through the online server.
I did see the black friday deals offered by Bambu were pretty good.
Many people review the P1 enclosed version as a superb printer for the cost.
I tried to print the Hydra mod for the AMS all 3 parts on one plate. Got to %75 and it toppled. Spaghetti detect is awesome! I was at the store when I got the notice. 
I forgot to brim them. Weirdly one was brimmed the other 2 were not.
I had used the Bambu juice on the plate. After that I use Layerneer exclusively. Layerneer saved my sanity with Prusa. Set it, forget it.
I use filament filters and attribute that to no clogs 
. Easy to find on Amazon. I am working on a design in Shapr to incorporate them into the AMS with an easier to press loading button.
Funny that they have used an EMI ferrite case to hold the sponge material.
I am currently using 3DLAC spray as bed adhesive.
It sticks really well until the build plate totally cools, then things just pop off.
I have taken to giving the build plate a good scrub each month in hot water with Fairy liquid, as this stops excessive build up of bed adhesive.
It’s probably the same thing as Layerneer. Might the same as Bambu glue 
I love those filters. They get what looks like belly button lint on the entry side. Pick it out with tweezers and blow it off and reuse it.
3DLAC smells like hair styling spray.
I am going to keep the idea of scrubbing the filament in mind, its an interesting idea.
I expect passing filament through an electro-statically charger module would be a good cleaning method.
Fibre re-enforced filaments are quite abrasive and also wear the inside of the guide tubes, which will produce more dust.
The tech support days you talk about were done in by corporate consolidation and takes overs, attributed to managers just out of business school. The beans counters asked “why is the lone guy in that office making so much money?” Then they fire him. And out walks that old guy who knew everything to be replaced by a younger, cheaper person who can only read a script. The company grows and so does their support needs. But in technology companies you cannot use Engineers for support. Cost too much and constant phone interruptions ruin productive creation in a timely sane manor. So we get inferior tech support.
The crap builds up on the filter, that’s less crap in the nozzle path. I’m for that.
Like you say, companies used to employ support engineers, and they were very often well experienced. I have found in the past that even with big companies there were only one or two people that knew a particular technology very well. Now with the trend to HIRE & FIRE at the whim of the accounting dept and still wet behind the ears management, the product knowledge does not evolve in the business.
I will get off the soap box now.
Unfortunately this is the business practice of all companies not just in 3d printing companies, sad!
